So this one is probably four days old now? But because of the shitty software we use—and the fact that our…ummm….editor is currently on vacation in Italy—it took some serious archeology to salvage the recording. But it sounds fine, it’s a good episode, and Moynihan isn’t at all annoyed about having to upload this from a beach in Forte dei Marmi. The lengths we will go to make you people smarter and happier…So no description. Just listen to the damn thing.
I think the group’s patience should be rewarded with one picture of Moynihan paying €400 (minimum) per day, for a Cabana at one of the beach clubs in Forte dei Marmi.
“Troy”, written when Sinead O’Conner was in her teens, is proof of almighty songwriting ability, either the orchestrated album version or just her and an acoustic guitar live, which is brutal. It blew me away aged 17 and it still sounds amazing now.
She also wrote some great songs for her second album. She was a proper songwriter, not someone who worked with five other songwriters and added a couple of words to a song.
I didn’t follow her work much after that, as l got the sense she unravelled (and it wasn’t as easy to follow bands/artists back then, especially as I was a student and CDs weren’t cheap), but that her big hit was a cover should not disguise her talent, before fame took its toll.
If you like songs about heart-wrenching rejection, “Troy” is up there with the best, with added profanity in the live version.
I have a similar Sinead history. From that time, the key to seeing her as a good songwriter was “The Emperor’s New Clothes”. As confessional and confronting as pop music gets.
Thanks for the tip - I listened to the live version of "Troy," and it's very affecting.
I'm not a music maven, so I don't have the vocabulary to express this well, and my opinion probably isn't that insightful, but here goes:
1) IMHO, the songwriting on Troy probably isn't that memorable, but the performance is awesome.
2) What I found affecting about the performance is that it's very raw in contrast with her very pretty voice, plus there is the trademark O'Conner thing where her voice "breaks" and jumps notes in the middle of a syllable, which gives the whole thing an authentic, mad quality.
No. She's "just a pretty bald girl with a pretty voice." sarcasm.
Why am I not surprised? Micheal did exactly what he accused the leftist writer of the article of doing: he'll only hold artists in high regard if their politics are to the right. Consider the breathless praise over Nick Cave.
I just think it seemed like MM hadn't listened to enough Sinead O'Conner and drew an inference about her most famous hit being a cover. She may have had other covers later too that adds to this, but I'm talking about the early years.
She wrote 5 genuinely great songs on the second album, and "Troy", from the first, will forever be amongst my favourite songs. And as I said, I'm not a fan of her's per se, but you could see the songwriting talent at a young age. I don't know what she wrote later in life, and how it compares (no pun intended).
Live version here, mixing gentle (genuine) vulnerability with a fearsome rage, from 1988:
I was thinking something similar when he kept mentioning Mandinka as being "the single from The Lion and the Cobra", and thinking, "who cares about Mandinka?"
They discuss the ill politics of their favorite artists (The Clash, Rage, Elvis Costello, Billy Bragg, etc.), and why politics are a ridiculous reason to not listen to artists you love. And yes, Moynihan loves Nick Cave, but I’m pretty sure that was well-established before he knew his politics, not the other way around.
I need to catch up my my Re-education. That sounds great. I used to love Rage as a teenage lefty (though I was never as lefty as them, hah) and I still do, even though their politics are the worst.
Between Moynihan and Eli, they cover a lot of ground in that episode! Eli also did an extended punk episode with Nick Gillespie last summer that was pretty interesting. Totally with you on Rage--I'll happily listen to them any day of the week so long as it's not an interview with Tom Morello. :)
I do think he under-sold her as a songwriter (yep, she was good, not great - but several songs were fucking great), but c'mon. Westerberg's isn't what anyone would consider on the right (nor is Cave, but less so). Nor would I necessarily consider Shuhada' Sadaqat on the left. And the bit of the article attributing her music etc. to the battle against Capitalism was flat out dumb. If anything it was a battle to control her individuality.
That Cathy Young column was so weird. The underlying argument of exploring Republican affection for RFK was valid, but then she chose the worst avatar imaginable to make it in Cooke. And then just doubled down over and over. As someone who respects her writing that just sucked to watch
Great (if apocryphal) line about the demise of Loeb (of Leopold and Loeb referenced at the start) who was murdered in prison after apparently coming onto another inmate in the 1930's:
"Despite his erudition and good upbringing, today Mr Loeb ended his sentence with a proposition"
A better design would be 'Hope', since Sowell's philosophy begets that emotion in me much more than Obama's cringe-y 'Victimhood with a side of mashed bootstraps' bloviation.
Sinead O'Connor did a lot of amazing renditions of traditional Irish songs and collaborations with great bands, like the Chieftains, and of course she's most well known in the US for that Prince song. She wrote or co-wrote every song on The Lion and the Cobra, including Jackie, Jerusalem, Troy, and Drink Before the War. These may not be the songs she is most known for, so while it might be fair to say, "She is not known for being a great song writer", Matt Welch, she wrote some really fucking great songs.
I understand and do not detract away from your fandom! I bought The Lion and the Cobra when it came out, too, and listened to it a lot, and appreciate that it has an audience, and I *really* appreciate her as a character and singer. I don't happen to think her written songs are great, is all, including on Lion, but opinions are like assholes, etc.
I just quoted a PG-version of this line to my 10-year-old today! Only it was in reference to humor, not music, when some punk at basketball camp told my son he wasn’t funny. It made him laugh, so success!
Appreciating the fan service for your one Northern Irish fan. Last week we had 'fenians', this week 'taigs' - you'll have to throw in a 'huns' lest you be accused of favouring one side of the community.
Okay, so I hate to be "that guy"(well not totally, because I am about to be that guy), but I have to completely disagree about Sinead's ability as a songwriter. If you are defining her career by Nothing Compares 2 U, not only are you not going deep enough, you are not even scratching the surface. There are hundreds of incredibly talented and amazing artists who never get close to having a hit, but their work still stacks up to anybody's. Sinead's bank account and notoriety were lucky enough to profit from a great remake of a Prince song, but pour through her catalog and there is so much more that she herself personally penned. Troy alone is worth the price of admission.
P.S. Are we saying though that under Socialism the idea of physical attractiveness will be done away with and ugly people will have the ability to get ahead in life just as much? Because I might have to reconsider my opposition to Socialism then.
They said it was about the writer and others being a little bit too flowery in their remembrances of her but that's to be expected, it being only days after her passing.
While listening it just struck me as dismissive and quite frankly mean spirited. Especially dismissive of her SNL protest against the Catholic Church and the reasons behind it.
A little strange too because the boys can and have paid tribute to even more obscure artists that were some of their personal faves upon the artists passing. I know to each his own and if Sinead isn't your thing, she isn't your thing, but to mainly categorize her as a one-hit wonder as if she were Men With Hats or the 1910 Fruitgum Company is to really short shrift her as an artist.
I don’t doubt her conviction, but I never took her SNL stunt all that seriously. Certainly not enough that it affected my judgment of her body of creative work.
Such a hugely under appreciated artist AND SONGWRITER. People who haven't listened to The Lion and the Cobra need to stop what they're doing immediately and go listen.
The New Yorker writer implying Sinead O’Connor “fought capitalism” with a haircut...
“Is this what college Marxism has become?”
Yes, this is exactly what college Marxism has become, and I’m starting to believe that’s all it ever was: Empty Aesthetic.
Big "eat your podcast or I'll give you something to cry about" energy
I think the group’s patience should be rewarded with one picture of Moynihan paying €400 (minimum) per day, for a Cabana at one of the beach clubs in Forte dei Marmi.
God knows we will hear about it.
Moynihan is just like BLM. He takes our subscription fees and blows it on the high life.
The case for a producer seems to be ever-growing
“Troy”, written when Sinead O’Conner was in her teens, is proof of almighty songwriting ability, either the orchestrated album version or just her and an acoustic guitar live, which is brutal. It blew me away aged 17 and it still sounds amazing now.
She also wrote some great songs for her second album. She was a proper songwriter, not someone who worked with five other songwriters and added a couple of words to a song.
I didn’t follow her work much after that, as l got the sense she unravelled (and it wasn’t as easy to follow bands/artists back then, especially as I was a student and CDs weren’t cheap), but that her big hit was a cover should not disguise her talent, before fame took its toll.
If you like songs about heart-wrenching rejection, “Troy” is up there with the best, with added profanity in the live version.
I have a similar Sinead history. From that time, the key to seeing her as a good songwriter was “The Emperor’s New Clothes”. As confessional and confronting as pop music gets.
This whole album just rips me up.
Speaking of Troy...that maxi single re-release in 2002 was stellar...The Push Remix *chef's kiss*
Three babies 🔥
Thanks for the tip - I listened to the live version of "Troy," and it's very affecting.
I'm not a music maven, so I don't have the vocabulary to express this well, and my opinion probably isn't that insightful, but here goes:
1) IMHO, the songwriting on Troy probably isn't that memorable, but the performance is awesome.
2) What I found affecting about the performance is that it's very raw in contrast with her very pretty voice, plus there is the trademark O'Conner thing where her voice "breaks" and jumps notes in the middle of a syllable, which gives the whole thing an authentic, mad quality.
No. She's "just a pretty bald girl with a pretty voice." sarcasm.
Why am I not surprised? Micheal did exactly what he accused the leftist writer of the article of doing: he'll only hold artists in high regard if their politics are to the right. Consider the breathless praise over Nick Cave.
I just think it seemed like MM hadn't listened to enough Sinead O'Conner and drew an inference about her most famous hit being a cover. She may have had other covers later too that adds to this, but I'm talking about the early years.
She wrote 5 genuinely great songs on the second album, and "Troy", from the first, will forever be amongst my favourite songs. And as I said, I'm not a fan of her's per se, but you could see the songwriting talent at a young age. I don't know what she wrote later in life, and how it compares (no pun intended).
Live version here, mixing gentle (genuine) vulnerability with a fearsome rage, from 1988:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeIHZvZTJTg
"You should have left the light on – then I'd never have tried and you'd never have known"
I was thinking something similar when he kept mentioning Mandinka as being "the single from The Lion and the Cobra", and thinking, "who cares about Mandinka?"
Au contraire mon frère…if you’ve not heard this Eli Lake episode with one Michael Moynihan, it’s pretty good:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-re-education-with-eli-lake/id1619523910?i=1000569875210
They discuss the ill politics of their favorite artists (The Clash, Rage, Elvis Costello, Billy Bragg, etc.), and why politics are a ridiculous reason to not listen to artists you love. And yes, Moynihan loves Nick Cave, but I’m pretty sure that was well-established before he knew his politics, not the other way around.
I need to catch up my my Re-education. That sounds great. I used to love Rage as a teenage lefty (though I was never as lefty as them, hah) and I still do, even though their politics are the worst.
Between Moynihan and Eli, they cover a lot of ground in that episode! Eli also did an extended punk episode with Nick Gillespie last summer that was pretty interesting. Totally with you on Rage--I'll happily listen to them any day of the week so long as it's not an interview with Tom Morello. :)
The upside to commuting is lots of listen time. Got through it today - thanks for the suggestion!
Anytime, my friend!
I do think he under-sold her as a songwriter (yep, she was good, not great - but several songs were fucking great), but c'mon. Westerberg's isn't what anyone would consider on the right (nor is Cave, but less so). Nor would I necessarily consider Shuhada' Sadaqat on the left. And the bit of the article attributing her music etc. to the battle against Capitalism was flat out dumb. If anything it was a battle to control her individuality.
Nancy Mace 2024: It’s Morning in America, Baby!
That Cathy Young column was so weird. The underlying argument of exploring Republican affection for RFK was valid, but then she chose the worst avatar imaginable to make it in Cooke. And then just doubled down over and over. As someone who respects her writing that just sucked to watch
I can’t blame CC for being upset, especially in light of her dismissive response.
Obviously with all the saucer crashes we can assume that the alien pilots were DEI hires and that's a big problem all over the Galaxy
Diversity, Equity, and Invasion
Very good! Wish I’d thought of that.
DETI
Maybe we only see the little green men because the little blue men have better piloting skills.
So, Hole was a great band for 3 albums.
Pretty On The Inside- was a Kim Gordon record
Live Through This- Kurt
Celebrity Skin- Billy Corgan (his best album)
Celebrity Skin is so goddamn good.
Cobain may have contributed to Pretty on the Inside but Courtney made that album. Without her, it's an average album.
Thank you! I'm partial to the first two, but won't deny that I think "Celebrity Skin" is very good.
"Live Through This" was an album that Pitchfork reviewed in 2018, and it was surprisingly un-insufferable!
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/hole-live-through-this/amp/
This article feels like a massive over correction to the "Kurt wrote it" theory. Of course, the theory is what we still have.
Great (if apocryphal) line about the demise of Loeb (of Leopold and Loeb referenced at the start) who was murdered in prison after apparently coming onto another inmate in the 1930's:
"Despite his erudition and good upbringing, today Mr Loeb ended his sentence with a proposition"
On a business trip out west, I saw a guy with a Obama change style shirt except it was Thomas sowell not Obama. This seemed the right place to share.
A better design would be 'Hope', since Sowell's philosophy begets that emotion in me much more than Obama's cringe-y 'Victimhood with a side of mashed bootstraps' bloviation.
Omg
Right? I think he was a little embarrassed by how much I kvelled over him
And hopefully you also found out where I can get one?
I got you. https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/19207933-thomas-sowell-in-colour
I recently purchased a "don't make me use my nuclear engineer voice" t shirt so I've maxed my kitschy tshirts budget
Sinead O'Connor did a lot of amazing renditions of traditional Irish songs and collaborations with great bands, like the Chieftains, and of course she's most well known in the US for that Prince song. She wrote or co-wrote every song on The Lion and the Cobra, including Jackie, Jerusalem, Troy, and Drink Before the War. These may not be the songs she is most known for, so while it might be fair to say, "She is not known for being a great song writer", Matt Welch, she wrote some really fucking great songs.
I understand and do not detract away from your fandom! I bought The Lion and the Cobra when it came out, too, and listened to it a lot, and appreciate that it has an audience, and I *really* appreciate her as a character and singer. I don't happen to think her written songs are great, is all, including on Lion, but opinions are like assholes, etc.
I just quoted a PG-version of this line to my 10-year-old today! Only it was in reference to humor, not music, when some punk at basketball camp told my son he wasn’t funny. It made him laugh, so success!
The Foggy Dew with The Chieftains. Amazing.
At some point before all of our ears, Moynihan became Larry David:
“... what the fuck is with all these acorns, fuck... fucking acorns fucking my car up FOR FUCKS SAKE”
His greatest nemesis
Yay! What a great birthday gift!
Happy birthday!
Happy Birthday.
Happy Birthday! 🎂
Appreciating the fan service for your one Northern Irish fan. Last week we had 'fenians', this week 'taigs' - you'll have to throw in a 'huns' lest you be accused of favouring one side of the community.
I am a taig, spelled Teague
I am a hun, but my sister married a taig and I'm dating one. King Billy turning in his grave.
Okay, so I hate to be "that guy"(well not totally, because I am about to be that guy), but I have to completely disagree about Sinead's ability as a songwriter. If you are defining her career by Nothing Compares 2 U, not only are you not going deep enough, you are not even scratching the surface. There are hundreds of incredibly talented and amazing artists who never get close to having a hit, but their work still stacks up to anybody's. Sinead's bank account and notoriety were lucky enough to profit from a great remake of a Prince song, but pour through her catalog and there is so much more that she herself personally penned. Troy alone is worth the price of admission.
P.S. Are we saying though that under Socialism the idea of physical attractiveness will be done away with and ugly people will have the ability to get ahead in life just as much? Because I might have to reconsider my opposition to Socialism then.
Yeah, I was really puzzled by their segment on Sinead O’Conner. It felt oddly dismissive.
Same. It just felt unnecessarily harsh or, at best, naive.
They can swear they are better than the writer of that "New Yorker" (I believe), but they (mostly Micheal) seemed upset about her politics.
I mean, we're defending the Pope for covering sex abuse because "Islam bad".
They said it was about the writer and others being a little bit too flowery in their remembrances of her but that's to be expected, it being only days after her passing.
While listening it just struck me as dismissive and quite frankly mean spirited. Especially dismissive of her SNL protest against the Catholic Church and the reasons behind it.
A little strange too because the boys can and have paid tribute to even more obscure artists that were some of their personal faves upon the artists passing. I know to each his own and if Sinead isn't your thing, she isn't your thing, but to mainly categorize her as a one-hit wonder as if she were Men With Hats or the 1910 Fruitgum Company is to really short shrift her as an artist.
Hey, hey... Pop Goes The World. 2 Damn Hits for the hatless non-birthing people :-)
Yeah that's the song I was thinking of. Are you saying Men Without Hats had another hit besides Pop Gies The World? Hmmm, it's not ringing a bell.
I understand that some writers get carried away, but Sinéad had really hardcore fans, and it's to be expected.
I guess this was response was expected as I saw I predicted this last week.
I don’t doubt her conviction, but I never took her SNL stunt all that seriously. Certainly not enough that it affected my judgment of her body of creative work.
Such a hugely under appreciated artist AND SONGWRITER. People who haven't listened to The Lion and the Cobra need to stop what they're doing immediately and go listen.