60 Comments
Jun 18, 2023Liked by Matt Welch

You guys need to interview Melania! Who gives a shit about anybody else

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Only if Michael does it in his Melania voice because I am sure she wouldn't quite grasp that he was doing her.

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A tough crowd, indeed. I enjoyed the conversation with Ramaswamy, and it spared me having to watch his interviews on the cable news channels. I intend to read Will’s piece.

I’m hoping you can get Tim Scott and RFK, Jr.

Looks like Moynihan picked up as much merch as he could in the ‘Real Time’ gift shop.

People love wearing t-shirts that show support their favorite show...or podcast. Ahem.

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founding
Jun 17, 2023Liked by Matt Welch

If by "picked up" you mean 5 finger discount, then I'm onside with the idea that Moynihan visited the Real Time "gift shop". IRL, there is a greater probability that Moynihan has shtupped AOC then paid for Real Time murse.

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Well it wouldn't be for lack of trying in both instances.

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I used to tell myself that the delayed roll out of the swag must be because the guys were looking for the perfect supplier. And that when it finally arrived it would be high quality, ethically sourced and flattering for all body types.

At this point I’d happily settle for a boxy, ill fitting, scratchy ‘Beefy T’.

Or even some ‘Be Brave. Call Bullshit’ cargo shorts.

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As a rule, I wear no clothing with opinions or exhortations on it. The only item I own that has a visible logo of any kind — which I treasure even as it slowly falls apart — is a white t-shirt with the word CUTTERS on the front and the number 34 on the back, as worn by the character Dave Stoller (Dennis Christopher) in the 1979 motion picture ‘Breaking Away,’ given to me as a going-away gift by an employee of mine who, like me, loved the film. (I’ve subsequently been told I resemble the character/actor. Not while wearing the shirt.) I’d make an exception for a BBCBS shirt. I’d go David Puddy, “Gotta support the team!” Well, no face paint, given that TFC’s colors are primarily black.

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I’d take a vomit stained burlap sack with the ‘East Egg Trading Company’ stenciled on it.

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I'd take a mysteriously stained tunic with an embroidered "I like my politics like I like men: jackknifed over a flying fist."

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Holy shit. It had to be a tunic!

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RFK, Jr. was just on Rogan.

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Yes, I caught that. Also his appearance on Breaking Points, and part of his interview with Glenn Greenwald.

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*support ~for~ their favorite.

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Vivek is that brand of "nationalist" that thinks countries like Ukraine don't have a right to self determination and territorial integrity if a larger neighbor wants their land. His policy is literally, "Screw Ukraine, we're going to force them to eat shit in the service of a fantasy of splitting the Chinese/Russian alliance." It won't happen, and we could not monitor the agreement in the extremely unlikely case Russia claimed to want to do it. Vivek wants to trust the same Russia that gave Ukraine security guarantees when Ukraine agreed to give up the nukes it held! It is delusional to think a bully who has invaded multiple neighbors is going to stop their aggression because they signed a paper with the US to break a strategic alliance that serves Russia very well. TBH, ANY ceasefire right now would serve as a break to refit and rearm the Russian Army, nothing more. It certainly would not be "peace." Vivek's grand plan is about coming up with a reason why current admin is wrong to be supporting Ukraine, and dressing it up. There is also no consideration that by making Russia pay an extremely high price in Ukraine, we're sending a message to the Chinese (at the price of no American lives risked) that a botched invasion of Taiwan could destabilize the Chinese regime. Political instability is the ONE thing the CCP won't risk. Every time HIMARS wipe out a Russian formation, and Patriots take out the hypersonic missiles the Russians had loudly proclaimed invincible, the Chinese have to ask themselves "Do we want to send our troops, who btw haven't fought a real conflict in generations, and didn't win the last conflict they fought, into this meat grinder opposite US military tech?"

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Don’t forget our defense industries are making money hand over fist and our congressmen are buying defense stocks after voting to send more stuff to Ukraine. Those Abrams tanks destroyed over there will need to be replaced. Put on a third shift at the tank factory. Just saying.

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Boo, Hoo. American workers are making over time. Do you want your kids fighting in Europe in 10 years? If so, keep taking it like this. If not, support Ukraine. Also, there are no Abrams tanks in Ukraine yet.

As for depleting inventory, Everything we gave Ukraine would be replaced anyway. We are literally sending stock and ammo that are about to expire. For example, All the M777 howitzers we sent over were at the end of their barrel life. The M777 you read about getting taken out of service is in Poland getting new barrels. We have thousands of gulf war era Bradleys in storage. A loss of 10 is not an economic one.

Ukraine is paying in blood to keep Russia out of the Baltic and Moldova. And Russian influence (corruption) out of Europe. Supporting them is the least we can do.

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No one is going to be fighting in Europe. Sounds like the old Domino Theory from long ago. If we don’t fight ‘‘em there, we’ll have to fight ‘em in the streets of San Francisco. The North Vietnamese never made it to San Francisco.

What about Ukrainian corruption? It was one of the most corrupt countries in the world and all these billions going there is probably disappearing.

Replacing old weapons in our arsenal is a money bonanza for our defense industries. It also increases the worth of our congressmen’s portfolios.

I don’t cry about anyone working in a defense factory. Good for them! But let’s make it clear that a lot of wealth is being transferred into that sector of the economy and it sure looks like keeping the Ukraine supplied and replenishing our stuff is good for the bottom lines.

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Yes Let’s be clear we are arming Ukraine who was invaded back in 2014 after the people Over turned and kicked out a oligarch who was in the pocket of Moscow via mass protest.

We did not help them then and we should have.

Unfortunately Russia decided to try a full blown invasion in 22.

This time Russia dropped the mask and decided to behave like a genocidal Etho state bent on wiping out the Ukrainian people.

And yet , this is not a good enough reason for you .

You the mocked The Who next comment , let me remind you Ukraine is nation number 3. Right behind Chechnya , Georgia .

If Moscow was successful with its plans in 22

Moldova was next.

Moscow would not stop until it could secure Poland and the Baltics. (This is where Americans join the fight)

We also know this because Moscow said it.

And yet you don’t believe them about that but you repeat Russian talking points.

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founding

Ukraine clearly has a right to defend itself, but it has no right to U.S. or international support and the US is well within its right to place any conditions it would like on support.

on the protest/coup/whatever you want to call it, I just gotta say dude, it was an actual insurrection. a democratically elected president was forcefully removed from office. this is like if the Jan 6th rioters had coerced congress into doing trump's bidding & saying that "the ppl" threw out Biden.

Putin's a piece of shit. fuck him. but that has no bearing on whether supporting ukraine is the right thing for the united states

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founding

more convinced every day that this is the ultimate "ok boomer" issue

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" a democratically elected president was forcefully removed from office. "

this statement is not true and assumes the election was not compromised. The protesters demanded the end of Russian meddling. The cause of the revolution was because of Russian corruption. You are just parroting Moscow's narrative of the events. Besides, all bets were off when the Russian-backed state militia started using snipers to shoot protesters.

"no right to U.S. or international support" WTF does this even mean?

I hate to break it to you, but the USA and Europe passed laws to support Ukraine.

The nations of Europe, The USA, Japan, and Korea voted to support Ukraine.

"no bearing on whether supporting Ukraine is the right thing for the United States."

I'm afraid that's also not right.

First, Putin invaded Ukraine not only for the usual Geopolitical reasons But also for Ukraine's Natural Resources, Energy production, and Grain.

If Russia controlled Ukraine's Grain, they would have been set up to use Wheat for political leverage in Africa, Just like they used Gas for political clout in Europe.

You probably don't care, but it is in the interest of the USA to keep the "Russian world" influence in Europe and Africa to a minimum.

What county is following the Russian way that is thriving? Honduras? Belarus? To say not supporting Ukraine is the right thing is delusional.

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Well stated. The hypocrisy of the US government is amazing. We engineered the coup in Ukraine in 2014. Our government. Us. We did it.

We didn’t want a pro Russian regime that was democratically elected. Democracy is fine when the fools vote the way you want but when they don’t it is time for a coup! Open your history books and check out Iran 1956.

Or maybe Peru 1973. We like regimes that go our way not the way of the idiot masses.

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The CIA helped engineer the 2014 coup in Ukraine. It was a huge mistake. A neutral pro Russian regime was the perfect solution and the US helped overturn it. The US and the West should have been satisfied with an unarmed neural Ukraine which the Russians would have accepted.

The Baltic states and Poland are in NATO. Russia would never invade them as they would have to face Big Daddy USA.

The US has to admit it went to far. Tell Russia Ukraine will never be a NATO state and will be totally neutral. Stop this damn war.

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You know how the war ends. It's simple. Russia leaves Ukraine.

Also, everything else you said is bullshit.

Russia could have had a so-called neutral Ukraine. If it did not meddle in Ukraine's elections AND Fing, start a genocidal war on Ukraine that you would have been happy to proceed.

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This is true BUT because we have much more precision gear, the size of our armaments industry is smaller than it once was, and they can only do so much by adding shifts. The major contractors are not going to build new facilities for things like artillery shells that get used up superfast without a multi-year commitment from the USG to buy what they produce, and I haven't heard of that being in the works. Not only are our stockpiles being drawn down significantly, delivery dates on stuff that we promised to deliver to Taiwan (i.e. fighter jets) are getting pushed back more and more, which is not great. I think the reasonable decision has been made to emphasize the shooting war now over a theoretical war over Taiwan in the future. That is risky, too, but there is no path here without tradeoffs. Letting up just when a brutal aggressor is getting their capabilities to wage war vastly degraded is riskier. That's what Vivek wants us to do, to pay off narcissistic psychopath Putin with Ukrainian land, so Putin can declare victory. A peace secured with that kind of gutless pandering just sets the stage for the next invasion to bite off more of Ukraine.

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We spend close to a trillion dollars a year on defense and we can’t make enough shells. Who is stealing the money? Why does the defense industry get to decide so much about production? They live off the government teat and the government should tell them to get off their asses and make things they need. Besides the congressmen want to make those stocks go up.

I was against NATO expansion 30 years ago. There was no need for it to expand and now that we have provoked the beast in the Kremlin, we are reaping what we sowed. We got ourselves into a proxy war and don’t have a clue how to get out of it. I don’t like Vivek’s plan but it is a plan. The morons in the Biden administration have no idea what they are doing. They are lost.

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Interview Donald Trump haha

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OMG, I was just coming here to say the same thing! He is honestly the only candidate I would really want to hear(well I am sure Marianne will be kind of fun though).

Largely because I know the boys are too professional to at least not try and do a real interview, but it would be a countdown to how quickly it would go off the rails.

Matt wouldn't last past the first round of questions until he exploded.

Michael would last awhile but get flashbacks of the last Stalin apologist he debated and just shake his head bowing out.

Kmele would be civil from beginning to end, and offer a balanced and nuanced take afterwards. He'd also have been on half a kilo of edibles the whole time.

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Lol that’s awesome. I just want to see if they can handle him better than Kaitlyn Collins. It’s a challenge

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I think we do it live, half-Trump fans, half-Fif' fans.

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Pls do this. I will fly to any part of the country to watch this.

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Said with the confidence of a man who's sure there is no overlap in that Venn Diagram.

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Oh, I know there's overlap!

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Trump is, shall we say, a total retard. But even he isn’t retarded enough to accept a pod where he’s gangbanged by three men who are smarter, better read; and simply better humans, than he. But damn a boy can dream.

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Jun 18, 2023Liked by Matt Welch

In case anyone is interested- Peter Meijer was on the Dispatch podcast this morning talking about the Trump/Classified Documents situation

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Jun 18, 2023·edited Jun 18, 2023Liked by Matt Welch

This Atlantic podcast interview with Tim Alberta about his Chris Licht profile is worth listening to https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2023/06/the-rise-and-fall-of-chris-licht-and-cnn/674329/

And curious to know if anyone has been following the LGBTQ+ (Left) v Muslims situation https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

Sarah Haider has a good piece about it from an ex-Muslim POV https://sarahhaider.substack.com/p/muslim-christian-alliance-against

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Progressives seem genuinely gobsmacked when they have to encounter the idea that just because two groups may have a common enemy that doesn't mean they are automatic allies. The democratic socialists vs. the identitarians, socially conservative ethnic minorities vs sex and gender activists, the Left is a fragile coalition that they are constantly going to have to work at to even hold that fragile alliance together.

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founding

I got a kick out of those Reason articles from '04-'05. The past really is a foreign country. When you're a young adult, as I was back then ('04 was my first Presidential vote) the current state of politics seems to The Way It Is. Almost 20 years later, I realize just how rapidly the parties can swing into new positions. Yglesias circa 2005 would call Maddow circa 2018 an unhinged Bircher.

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Jun 17, 2023·edited Jun 17, 2023

I’m re-listening to a early-pandemic Special Dispatch: Matt gets a car! Michael is about to get a car! They both get justifiably pissy over a terrible anti-car column. Matt and then-five year old Coco go on an adventure in Red Hook to shake off the cabin fever. “I found an exploded bullet on the beach! I love exploded bullets!” (At this point, Matt sounds like he feels like an exploded bullet.)

Anyway, for car enthusiasts and commie haters alike, I recommend the new special from the artists formerly known as Top Gear, road-tripping from Poland to Slovenia in preposterous cars.

https://youtu.be/TYUHzTJRhAc

https://open.substack.com/pub/wethefifth/p/special-dispatch-21-the-quarantine-68c?r=7enhd&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post

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Was just reliving this day last night.... The feeling that you could not *escape* NYC was just overwhelming -- the subway was out of the question, your daily life was the (great, if closed) neighborhood immediately around you. The discovery both of the field and especially that (unbelievably tiny) beach felt like near-Biblical revelations.... The beach & nearby environs have become mainstays for us since. We obviously still have that car, though I think Moyn's about 3-4 cars later by now.

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Jun 18, 2023Liked by Matt Welch

P.s. Happy Father’s Day, girl dads. I grew up with a supportive, empowering dad, and it matters.

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Moynihan’s call to RETVRN to the suburbs was palpable; his latent Angloautophilia, yeah, sure, why not.

The pandemic adventures of Matt & Coco were all very poignant. Five years old is a hell of a time to be isolated from fellow kids, let alone the rest of the world.

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Any chance of getting Cornel West on? I feel like he'd be in the oeuvre of the pod. Plus he signed that Harper's Letter, no?

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Working on it!

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My body is ready.

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Hahaha why did I think today was Sunday? It's Saturday.

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I’ve thought the same thing all day bro. I blame the US Open.

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Regarding the n word, stand-up Dino Archie has a funny bit that 5thers will appreciate, though the whole show is funny:

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxw-uhEOR81b735W2p9ECKwa0sTOHIMSnb

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I dare you to try it and post the results. :)

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Matt, that performance by The Cure is just epic. Thanks for sharing...

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Who are these young people?

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You should have Mary Sarotte on to chat NATO expansion and the crumble of the Soviet empire in general.

Ask about the time Yeltsin was drunk in the DC streets screaming for pizza .....

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I’d recommend this to any TFC listener to understand the issue with a more sober mind. The US has dug its’ own grave in this area and willing to go to war with China is just beyond ridiculous at this point. https://open.substack.com/pub/americanprestige/p/e101-semiconducter-kind-of-life-w?r=3gaff&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post

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